I’m a culture change specialist with a vision to make workplaces better. I’m employed as the Head of Human Resources at DuluxGroup – a successful, growing international consumer goods company based in Melbourne, where my focus in on creating a more consumer-oriented and growth focused culture.

I trained as an organizational psychologist and hold a BA in Psychology and a Masters degree in Occupational Psychology from University of Sheffield, England. I began my career as a management consultant at PricewaterHouse Coopers in London where I crisscrossed Europe helping clients create successful culture transformations. In this role I advised leaders across four continents about how to create more vibrant and productive work environments.

In 1994 I grew tired of the long, wet English winters and moved to Australia, where I continued my work as a change advisor with Accenture.

After a decade as a consultant I wanted to put some “skin in the game” and decided to test all that I had learned in an actual corporate setting.  I was employed as the executive in charge of change in a series of large, complex organizations. In these workplaces I was no longer operating as an outsider but actually getting my hands dirty working in the challenging and often messy trenches of transformation. These “insider” positions gave me a markedly different perspective on workplace change.

You have an impressive a track record of creating more engaged businesses across four continents. What is the connection between engaged employees and a strong talent brand?

I worked at Accenture which is one of the biggest consulting firms in the world. Within 3 months of joining I had moved countries from Australia to New Zealand and was working in the retail sector, which was completely new to me. I was on an accelerated learning curve but my experience in the consulting firm was completely aligned with the promise that I had been ‘sold’ when I interviewed for the job. I was told by the partners that I was entering a fast-paced, stretch culture where I was expected to be agile. I was not surprised when, three months after I had joined, I was asked to move countries.

The important thing with your employer brand is that it is congruent with the ‘deal’ that you are espousing to employees. When there is misalignment between the promise and the deal, then that’s when you get noise. So, for instance, if you are telling people that they can expect a highly engaged workplace and you don’t deliver on this promise then employees will be disappointed when they enter your firm.   The clearer you can be about the expectations and the closer you can deliver to these, the better.

DuluxGroup has a quite unusual Brand Ambassador. Can you tell us more about him?

Yes, our brand ambassador is an Old English Sheepdog called Digby. Our employees love Digby and he shows up to staff events where there is typically a queue to get a photo taken with him. The dog was first introduced in advertising campaigns in 1961. Since then the sheepdog has been a constant and highly popular feature of Dulux television and print adverts wherever the paint is sold. So much so, that many people in those markets refer to the breed as a ‘Dulux dog’ rather than a sheepdog. Over the years, different dogs have appeared in the adverts. However, they all look very similar and Fernville Lord Digby, was the most famous Dulux dog.

What is the role of the leadership team in creating a powerful talent brand of Dulux? Can you give us some examples?

Our approach as DuluxGroup is what we call “Leader-led” which means that line managers are in charge of bringing the employer brand to life and it is HR’s role to support them in this endeavour. Leaders are expected to walk the talk and lead by example. They are the ones who bring the employment promise to life every day for employees.

Our engagement survey results show that we have a high level of employee satisfaction and a high performing culture which I believe is the holy grail when it comes to employer brand. We tend to attract people who want to do their very best in a friendly work environment. The leader’s job at DuluxGroup is to maintain and build this highly engaged culture.

What are your company values and how do you communicate them?

Our employer brand is built off the DuluxGroup company Values & Behaviours which employees are expected to bring to life every day at work. Whether it be ‘putting themselves in our customers’ shoes’, looking out for their workmates, unleashing their imagination to find a smarter solution or giving back to the community – our employees act with confidence that this is ‘the DuluxGroup way’.

These Values were collectively developed and agreed by our employees – across all businesses and geographies – in 2011, soon after we became an independent company following a demerger from our parent company Orica.  Workshops were held across the firm and people across the organisation were invited to have their say. The Values are inspired in equal measure by where we’ve come from and where we want to be as a company. Our strategy guides what we do, our Values guide how we do it. We know that ‘culture trumps strategy’ every time – therefore, we encourage, recognise and reward our people for living our Values in everything they do.

How does DuluxGroup use content marketing and storytelling methods on LinkedIn or online to generate stronger candidate pipelines?

Our strategy is to engage authentically about what it’s like to work at DuluxGroup. We encourage our people to share their stories about what their experiences have been and what opportunities they have been given. We believe that the best way of attracting the right people is to show them what really happens when you join the company.

In my role as Head of HR, I also publish content and share my views on all things HR, culture and change. I write about topics that I’m passionate about and that I think can help to make workplaces better – which is my vision in my work. I’m also passionate about the HR profession and how we can progress (here is a link to a recent article about my views on the topic of The future of HR https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hr-outer-your-business-so-here-3-ways-fix-siobhan-mchale). Your readers can follow or connect with me on LinkedIn if these are topics of interest for them.

How do you empower your employees to tell your company story?

Because our employees are highly engaged and proud of working at DuluxGroup, they share this story with family and wider network.   We know from our employee engagement surveys that our people recommend DuluxGroup to their family and friends as a great place to work.

Thank you for the interview!

Thank you!

***

Picture credit: Siobhan McHale, DuluxGroup

Leni, congratulations for Meltwater being awarded the Top 7 Best Place to Work in Australia in 2017 and Top 12 Best Place to Work in Asia in 2018, as well as being one of 2016, 2017 & 2018 Great Place to Work Awards Winners in Canada. Can you share some secretes of your company success: what are the best practices of talent attraction and retention at Meltwater?

What attracted me to Meltwater was the fact that the company has managed to establish itself as a global leader in media monitoring with 60+ offices in less than 17 years! However, despite the success and growth we are experiencing, candidates I approach on LinkedIn typically have not heard about us, but when they do their research, they’re always surprised that they have not come across us yet!

Our target market is Gen Y (also known as Millennials), it is well reported that personal growth and career development is the key factor in choosing a suitable employer for this generation. As such Meltwater is extremely conscious of building a culture that facilitates that experience, we challenge our employees from day one to be the best version of themselves. We work in a fast-paced environment, things change quickly so our new recruits need to be agile and learn quickly.

Research also shows Gen Y wants to be connected to the work they’re doing and for us, that means ensuring there is a sense of shared purpose. There is plenty of time spent with line managers and even though these meetings may sometimes seem like simple catch ups, the regularity achieves a greater purpose. A constant two-way feedback ensures people feel they have a seat at the table, they are given a platform to speak up and make an impact on the business and its culture.

Last but not least, we promote based on merits, not tenure. Drive and determination and your ability to realize your potential quickly are what determines the speed at which your progress. You can easily check this by a simple search of our employees on LinkedIn.

Is building a strong talent brand a “must have” or “nice to have” for modern employers?

Definitely a “must have”. Especially for Gen Y, they want to be coming to a place where they don’t only do what they enjoy doing but also a place where they feel welcome and are surrounded by like-minded individuals. Showing them what our culture is about, what our workplace looks like (maybe even giving them a sneak peek into our office playlists), how we celebrate success and what we do together outside of our workplace, is a no-brainer. This way they will already anticipate if this is an environment they would love to be part of or not.

What has been the process of building a strong talent brand at Meltwater?

We don’t have a designated team or employees for building our talent brand. I believe this should be a common effort of recruitment, marketing and HR, but, ultimately, all employees are responsible for this. Of course, all of us have a slightly different goal but at the end of the day, we all want to increase our brand awareness. I drive different initiatives, such as encouraging our employees to write blog posts, partner with top universities and students’ societies and provide training to all newbies (regardless of what team they join) on how to manage/promote our brand on LinkedIn. I already started this in my last job and it worked really well so took it over with me to Meltwater. It only takes about 15 minutes (if they’re in Sydney, its F2F, if in any other office, it’s via a video Skype call) but you would be surprised how little people know about different functions on LinkedIn and how to use them to your advantage. I always start the training with showing them some numbers on how many people interact with our brand on daily basis which always leads them to understand why this training is so important.

What is your social media strategy when it comes to employer branding?

I’m a huge advocate of LinkedIn and that’s where I spend lots of my time during the day. From my experience, the most quality talent is right there and it’s easy to tap into. On the other hand, it is true that the Gen Y don’t necessarily have a LinkedIn profile (yet!) and so it is important to build a strong strategy on their favourite social channels, such as Instagram and Snapchat – this is work in progress for us right now!

How do you use content marketing and storytelling methods on LinkedIn to generate stronger candidate pipelines?

As mentioned before, I love LinkedIn and consider content marketing as a great tool for raising brand awareness. I always make sure my posts have a purpose and most importantly, have a personal touch. Sharing only jobs, I’m currently hiring for wouldn’t make the cut! I divide my posts in 25% about our office life/culture, 25% about company updates, 25% about job posts (always accompanied by the right culture pic!) and 25% about my personal/professional interests. Sometimes it’s hard to keep the office life pictures to only 25% because there’s always something happening (ranging from a simple celebration of someone’s birthday – yes, everyone loves a good piece of cake! – through celebrating a new deal that just came in, to those crazy closing days when we always have a theme and dress up).

How does Meltwater empower their employees to tell their company story?

With the high retention we have, I feel like we don’t even need to empower our employees to tell the story (esp. off line)! We’ve had great examples when my colleagues randomly met people in a shop, bar or a taxi, started a conversation and suddenly, I had a referral, or we had a new client! It’s great when you are surrounded by people who are passionate about the company they work for!

What is the role of the leadership team in creating a powerful talent brand of Meltwater?

Our leadership team is active mainly on LinkedIn, giving advice and tips on how to better understand the billions of conversations happening online and how PR and Marketing Managers can use the #OutsideInsight (as we call it) to make their life easier. Meltwater started investing in AI already in 2013 and has heavily increased that in the past 18 months when we acquired 7 start ups (mainly based around AI). #OutsideInsight (which is a part of our software) leverages AI to discover valuable insights from external data, helping business executives make better, more forward-looking decisions.

We recently introduced a developed “Give back” program that enables our employees to take work days off to contribute to causes they care deeply about. My colleague Laura Rowland (Director of Support APAC, now based in our Melbourne office but soon to relocate to our Shanghai office) was the first one to take a full advantage of this new initiative and spent 2 days with the Mirabel Foundation which is the only organisation in Australia specifically addressing the needs of children who have been orphaned or abandoned due to parental drug use.

What are your company values and how (when and where?) do you communicate them?

Our values are at the core of our culture and can be summed up by the acronym MER, which means “more” in Norwegian (our founder Jorn Lyseggen comes from Norway). The values are:

Moro = fun. We believe that to become successful as a whole, we should all enjoy ourselves. That’s why we promote a fun, collaborative working environment.

Enere = number 1. At Meltwater, average isn’t good enough. Our goal is to build a groundbreaking company supported by a thriving culture in which our people aspire to exceed their personal expectations.

Respekt = respect. We believe it matters how a company or an individual becomes number one. Striving to be the best doesn’t mean sharp elbows: we should all treat our colleagues and customers with respect and humility.

These values have been with us from Day 1 in 2001 and are really a true heart of the way how we operate. We begin educating future employees about our values during our interview process and we communicate them very frequently; they guide us through everything we do, from how we prioritize our objectives and make decisions to how we clarify expectations and measure our success.

Can you give us some examples of your innovative HR / talent management policies? How do you communicate them internally and externally?

There are a couple of things we do differently. We only promote from within and based on merits, not tenure. All managerial roles are filled internally which gives lots of opportunities for our own employees. Candidates typically realize this when they come here and are interviewed by other people who are also Gen Y. It proves these people have been promoted quickly, based on their experience here.

We foster an environment which promotes socializing. We have monthly social events (including a dress code which is usually topical depending on what’s happening around us, such as tennis dress code for the Australian Open, Chinese dress code for Chinese New Year but we also had random ones such as rock star dress code or Italian one!) and every two years we all go to what we call a “Kick Off” – three – four days company conference which is always held at a different location and everyone who’s been with us for over a year gets to go. I was lucky enough that when I joined last year in January, there was a Kick Off happening in March and I also went to Thailand! It was fantastic to meet Jorn, our founder, my colleagues from all over the world and understand where we are going as a company (I do believe this was crucial for the success in my role as it gave me even more insightful exposure to our values and what they actually mean). I cannot wait for the next one!

How you measure your success? What is (or should be) the most important metric for a great recruiter/ employer branding expert?

It may sound like a cliché, but I’m driven by the success of my hires. When I see people, who joined us only few months ago closing big deals and really enjoying their work and our culture, that’s what makes me get out of bed every morning and keep doing what I’m doing.

I don’t think you can’t pick up the most important metric for a great recruiter, especially when talking about in-house recruitment. It should be a combination of a number of things, such as the amount and quality of hires, providing positive and effective recruitment experience (regardless of the outcome) and increasing the brand awareness.

Thank you for the interview!

Thank you!

***

Picture Credit: Leni Rokosova, Meltwater

While it all sounds perfect (and some days, I think it is quite close to it), I think sometimes this is life, right? You are finally settled, comfortable, and in your routine, only then faced with a decision to change it all up again. Maybe you are wondering why he cannot just come to Prague – well, the main reasons are that he would have trouble finding a good paying and growth opportunity job in comparison to London (the reality – he is an accountant). And while I love my colleagues and enjoy the work most of the time, I also know that I cannot stay in this position forever and there will come a time in which I need to move on. So hence, that time is now.

Something amazing and unexpected happened when I told my boss I was leaving. I was offered by my company to work from London. I was blown away. I didn’t think it was an option because it seemed a bit unrealistic due to the salary level differences between the two countries. However, it became a reality. It is such a helpful transition for me and entering into marriage this year – I was speechless.

I believe these things tend to happen when:

1. You are doing the job the best you can. Sure, you have days where you are not so focused or motivated or you are constantly thinking if this is the right direction, but you do what you can. You show up and you do what you say you are going to do. Imperfect progress. And of course, look for something else if you know it is not the right fit at all.
2. Kindness and humility. I am convinced these two qualities overrule anything else and always lead to more.
3. Trust and faith – I am in a phase when I am trying to not predict my life anymore or control it so much that I do not allow other amazing things to happen. To keep going and trusting that Someone is looking out for me – not in a genie sort of way, but in a very real way even if not always in my timing that I wish for.

I find myself always searching for the next thing. I am a changer. But at the same time, there is such beauty in being open to what crosses your path. My heart of hearts desire to help women and girls trapped in human trafficking – how and doing what exactly? I am not quite sure. Sometimes I want to quit my job and work for a nonprofit doing just that, but then maybe in the end, I will be more effective in this role later especially in the financial realm. I have never worked in a charity so I think my expectations are high that if I quit to do that, I hope to change the world. But I believe we can change the world in ANY role and in ANY position – especially when we let go a bit of our own controlled timeline and path.

My next adventure just started in December in London. I honestly do not know what the future holds in regards to a career, but at least for the six months I do which is all I need for now.

The modern career woman: BOLD. GRACIOUS. KIND. HUMBLE. DETERMINED. OPEN. ADVENTUREOUS. LOVING. THANKFUL. And even sometimes not so stubborn (although most of the time, she probably is) and willing to give up some of her freedom and independence for something greater – that, in the end, offers more freedom than she could ever imagine.

Cheers to London and becoming a team with a man I can call a true friend and the type of love I have waited for – I will keep you posted.

Heather Schnacke

Olivia, what is the story behind your move to China?

I started studying Chinese at St. Mary’s High School. It was the first high school in Oregon to offer Chinese program. The summer after my first year of studying we had an opportunity to come China and I was one of the seven students selected. We travelled all around China during the holiday, it was my first trip outside of the States. It was the Summer 2007, and we went to Beijing, Henan, and the southern part of China, Kunming in the Yunnan province. It was so different from anything I had known or been exposed to before. After that experience, I started thinking that this is the path that I wanted to follow. I studied Chinese and business throughout college and I completed my final six months of college in Beijing, at Beijing Language and Culture University. I moved there by myself and enrolled in an intensive language program. The classes were only taught in Chinese and I was the only American in my class, with no other native English speakers. I think I cried a lot (laugh) and I was a little bit miserable for about five months, but by the sixth month I was loving it: I have this distinctive memory of riding in a cab and passing all these incredible buildings in Beijing. The energy from the city was electrifying. I went back to Oregon, graduated and found a job at an international adoption agency. I was helping prospective parents through the first 1 to 2 years of the adoption process. I was also helping to update the organization’s website to drive more traffic and liaising with our Beijing office. While this role was a huge learning opportunity for me, I knew it wasn’t my career path. I really wanted to move back to China and pursue a career in international business.

How did you do it?

The easiest way to be back in China quickly was through a teaching job. To the surprise of my friends and family it only took me couple of weeks to get one. The whole process of getting a visa took around four months. My parents knew I wanted to move back to China. Although it was probably hard for them, they never questioned it. They knew I could do it and I knew I was determined to make it work. I ended up in a city nearby Shanghai. The first time I visited Shanghai in March 2015 I totally fell in love with the city. I said to myself: I must move here. And to think, I didn’t even know what I know now about the city!

How did you find your current job?

I was using LinkedIn, Smart Shanghai, E-China cities. I had quite a few interviews, but nothing really seemed to be the right role for me. I knew I was passionate about and storytelling and how brands design and market products. At that time, I didn’t know marketing and branding were the answer until after I had an interview for a marketing position with a solar energy company. Although it wasn’t the right fit I enjoyed working on several interview projects. It helped me to narrow down my search.

The position I am in now was posted on LinkedIn and I applied for it. I had fifty connections and an outdated profile picture, but I got called in for the interview. Now I have over 1,100 followers and have published several popular posts and articles, several of them receiving over 12,000 views. I was featured in Forbes because of a connection I made on LinkedIn. We began a conversation about getting qualified leads through HubSpot, and we ended up writing an article that was published on Forbes, in just over a week it surpassed 5,000 views.

I know people in my industry are using LinkedIn, but I don’t see people, especially my peers, using it to its full potential. Nowadays building your personal brand is extremely important, it is the biggest thing you will carry with you from job to job. The reality is that my generation will be changing jobs at least a few times throughout their careers. LinkedIn is the platform to build your professional presence online. Twitter and Instagram are important too, but the LinkedIn is the ultimate professional space where people are going to go to search not only for talent, but for thought leadership. How have you contributed, what do you have to say about your industry? Building and interacting with your network is important, and now is the time to utilize LinkedIn to do this . I wrote about in What I learned from LinkedIn’s first Official Meetup in China article.

Can you tell us about your typical day at work?

I work for Brandigo , a global branding and marketing agency, with offices in Shanghai, Boston and Manchester. I’m based in Shanghai as our in-house marketing manager. I develop and carry out our inbound marketing strategy, this means I’m working with our marketing automation software, HubSpot, which helps to attract and track qualified leads. Each day I’m checking how are people interacting with our website, looking at which content is the most read and shared, what problems are people searching for that we can help solve, and what channels are they using? I develop our content strategy, keep our marketing collaterals updated and looking fresh.

What are the skills needed to succeed in marketing and branding in China?

You have to realize that the market here is unlike anything you have seen and experienced before. I cannot tell you how many conversations I have with professionals in this industry who will tell you that no matter what, you must be prepared to throw most of what you know out the window. China is changing incredibly fast, much faster than in the West. I see many international brands coming into China and they have no idea what WeChat is, but they want it. The fact is that marketers need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. China is massive, each city is like an individual country, and all these cities are very different from each other. A great WeChat will only get you so far, it’s about finding the right way to localize everything. If you can roll with the punches, see 10 steps ahead, listen to what is happening, and be flexible, you can survive in China.

What is your advice for someone who’s just relocating to China?

At the beginning, it seems like a massive life change. And it will be! But you have to be proactive and seek out groups and events that interest you. The unique aspect of being an expat is that you will almost always be able to relate to other expats on some level. You will share this common affinity for adventure and independence. There will be hard days, days when everything seem to be working against you and nothing makes sense. These tough days are amplified by the fact that you are other side of the world from everything you have ever known to be comforting. However, compared to other parts of China, living in Shanghai is easy, because most people speak English, and it is a modern, multi-cultural city. Find your community, find people who share the same values, interests, passions and surround yourself with people and projects which can expand your horizons and keep you grounded.

How did you find your community?

I moved here in August 2016 and didn’t know anyone in the city. I searched on Meetup.com and found Girl Gone International. This was the first community I got involved in and it gave me a gateway to many other friendships and relevant communities. The incredible thing about China is that we have WeChat, and WeChat groups. These groups can have up to 500 people in them, and when they are well managed, like the GGI (Girl Gone International) ones, they can be incredibly useful. After GGI I attended a number of networking events, and have since become actively involved in other groups such as IPWS (International Professional Women’s Society), TedxPuxi, and FitFam. The community that I have grown the most with has been FItFam. I got involved with FitFam – a free fitness community in Shanghai, which started about two years ago. Currently FitFam has 14 locations all over Shanghai with over 2,000 active members, and over 5,500 WeChat followers. I manage the FitFam WeChat account and communication strategies. The FitFam community is so special to me, everyone, foreigners and Chinese, are so supportive and always welcoming. This community has given me so much, especially because I have been able to combine my passion for fitness and healthy living with my passion for marketing and content creation. I truly believe that if I was back home I would not have pushed myself to get involved in so many different organizations, meet so many diverse people or challenged myself explore my passions. In Shanghai, you can meet so many incredible people from backgrounds you never imagined, try new things you didn’t even know existed, and simply get out of your comfort zone. I believe Shanghai gives you the opportunity to become a much stronger, empowered person.

What is the question no one asked you about, and you feel they should?

“What can you do differently?” I made a huge, and hard decision to leave my family and my home to come to another country to work. There are some tough days; it can be lonely, and sometimes nothing makes sense, but the hard work and sacrifice should be for something much bigger. My initial decision 10 years ago to start learning Chinese was because I wanted to do something out of the ordinary. During this past year I have tried to take in every experience, every opportunity that I possibly could. The more people I meet, the more I learn, not only about myself but also about the industry I work in. Today the world we live in is increasingly competitive, and I believe that to make an impact, not only in my own life, but also to impact the lives of others in a positive way, it requires us to seek out opportunities and challenges that that are outside of the norm. This is what I am looking to do.

Thank you, Olivia, we are looking forward our next interview: Everything About Branding.

Picture credit: Olivia Plotnick, Brandigo, VPHOTOS.

Mirco, as a Big Data geek with a Ph.D. degree in Mathematics, how do you see social media transform in the next 5-10 years from now?

Great question to start off  Dagmara! I think we should always begin with a touch of SF, because quite often what some mavericks are dreaming about now, becomes reality later. Social media means media which are social, media that are embedded in the very tissue of the social web. Now, where is the social web and where is it going?

I believe that the plumbing has already been done, we have plenty of large scales social communities. We also have small dedicated communities, we have various types of communication tools, we have, in a word, the proper infrastructure. But something is still lacking, isn’t it?

What is lacking is true SOCIAL INTELLIGENCE. By this I mean: just like there is a logical intelligence, there is a social one. Not many people are social intelligence geniuses, to be sure, and yet without it not much happens in one’s life, because social intelligence drives success. 

So, here is my little piece of SF: I dream that very soon there will be another Social Web, let us say Social Web 3.0, which looks and feel like the existing one but with a glaring difference – it is smart. In this social web on steroids, people will get together, form teams, virtual ventures. All of that thanks to some help from the embedded social intelligence. It goes without saying that this would drastically impact social media and social advertisement as well. Highly focused communities would also demand highly focused media….

Will the social media 3.0 allow people with scarce social intelligence to do the work for them? Also, it is interesting that you see the future of social media 3.0 as a collaboration tool. Would not that be just another LinkedIn or Slack on steroids? Just another networking tool?

We definitely need a layer of intelligence on top of the existing social web to form a team of collaborators. I am not suggesting that a machine is better than humans at assessing whether some fellow is the right one to cover some new role in a team, but the machine could act as an advisor. I would not like machines to replace my judgment, but I would like machines to expand my possibilities. Imagine I need someone for my team who is extremely smart, knows how to speak Farsi and Icelandic, has a record of traveling in off-the-road destinations, and has a passion for new projects. What is my chance to find such a fellow now? Very slim, right? So, why not have a little help? There is another dimension involved. This is not a battle humans vs machine. Humans could recommend people too, and perhaps the machine would learn from them…

That is why you decided to build a platform that will enable it?

The platform, that I am building right now, is a “gaming platform”, in a sense. The chief difference is that instead of letting you play in an alternate world, it tries to turn you into a superhero in this one. Most of us live an unnecessarily boring life because we dream and leave our dreams in our closet. Why not add a little spice by being able to post your dreams adventures or join other’s dreams and team up with other superheroes? That is precisely what I want for the Social Web 3.0.

You mentioned that the Social Web 3.0 will impact social advertising. What is the biggest challenge while using social media for advertising and the way to overcome it?

The biggest challenge is that we are completely drowning in information: everywhere we are bombarded with ads, brochures, emails. The only way to mitigate this miserable state of affair is to provide value, highly specific value, to the individuals. If you shoot me an ad, most likely I do not want to hear it, but if you know what I am after and you leverage this knowledge by assisting me in MY objectives things are quite different.

On the other hand, retargeted ads can be pretty helpful. But, let’s drop the topic of ads and let’s get into something more entertaining. You mentioned that our lives are quite boring. What about viral content? It makes our life more exciting, or at least more fun. Getting viral is what everyone secretly dreams about, but they don’t want to admit it at loud. What do you think it takes to achieve viral growth? What could be the key variables that drive viral growth?

The paper which I have coauthored with my fellow researchers at Chapman University partially answers the question: to become viral it means to become like a virus. Viruses go from place to place in the body, being hosted not only by single cells but by entire organs. We essentially found a math model of virality which involves leveraging groups and communities instead of single individuals, to spread information around. To be sure, our research is simply a modest step in the right direction, we need more sophistication to provide a better representation of virality. But using interest groups and active web communities to spread your “virus” is certainly a great way to begin.

If the information is like a virus, looks like we should start spreading info locally, to the people that are close to us in a strictly geographical sense (but they are not our friends like on Facebook), and let them share the info to everyone globally.  Do you see a potential in it, in a tool where everyone can share anything they like, but there are no other rules involved?

The beauty of the social web as it already operates now is that the notion of the locality has undergone great changes. When I grew up, several centuries ago, what was the chance of having a talk with you about social life? Close to zero. Now my nephews, who live in Milano, have friends in Spain or … China. Therefore, virality can take different clothes… however, having said that, there are certain types of information which must be spread locally, for the very simple reason that they are intrinsically local: why should I broadcast to the entire world the news that the guy next door offers the best pizza and a jazz concert for an incredible price? A guy in Peru could not care less…as for the second part of your question, I think we should have themes, channels through which information flows. I am not a big fan of Twitter’s model.

Neither am I. It’s way too messy and requires a constant time commitment. Mirco, if you were on a mission to predict the popularity of pieces of information that spread through the social media networks, where would you start?

Going back to the previous answer, I would try to understand which paths this piece of information follows to spread, and what is the relevance for folks and communities which dwell on mileposts along this path. Example: Suppose you try to spread some news about a service. You want to hit ONLY groups and folks for which this service could be intriguing, right? Nobody spreads info if they do not think it is “cool” and valuable…

Sure thing. But what is the probability to detect information big stories before they even happen?

It is extremely difficult to predict the future, especially where the human element is heavily involved. However, IF (big if!) I knew a lot about the folks and groups which receive this information, for instance, their tastes, goals, dislikes, then something can be predicted, especially if I do have a track record of previous scenarios.

Even if we knew the tastes, goals, dislikes, likes, interests of everyone in the earth, there are still many external factors that can mess your equation up. Is there anything certain about social media at all?

True, indeed the variables are almost infinite. But, as I have already said, I do not like Hal 9000 type of AI. I rather prefer Jarvis, the AI advisor of Tony Stark in Iron Man: Jarvis advises me, but I decide. If it makes mistakes, it will learn to adjust.

Using data and identifying new opportunities for unlocking it requires creativity. Could you give us an example of a product or a service that used creativity to bring data to the next level and unlocked its potential?

The obvious thing that comes to mind is Youtube. Not a rocket scientist type of technology, by any means,  but one that has changed radically many aspects of our life: we can post anything, opinions, products tests, news, personal journeys. A video which is on your computer is your video, a video that is on Youtube is humanity’s video…a big difference.

There are plenty of tools on the market that helps identify the most influential authors (influencers), but after finding the right ones for your product or niche, the question emerges: How do we minimize the risk of not getting enough brand exposure, engagement or leads from this cooperation? We cannot be sure that our content will resonate well with the audience. What data would you be searching for to maximize the success of the cooperation with an influencer?

With a partner in crime, I have been working hard at a new platform to do exactly what you ask for. To be more precise, and going back to the previous part of this interview, I do not believe that getting the influencers on your side is enough. You need to also catch groups and communities for which what you want to sell is relevant, and communities have a life of their own. So, whereas as you said there are plenty of tools which are aimed at individuals who are “hubs” in the social web, this perspective is a bit too skewed toward single individuals.

You mentioned that community has a life on its own, can you share more details here…?

A community to me is like a collective mind: we are the neurons, but the whole has an intelligence of its own. It is the same everywhere: a single cell is one thing, an organ quite another. This is extremely important to understand if we really want to unravel the mysteries of the social web: if we stick to the view of the cell, we miss the organs…

Any golden tip for social media managers out there on achieving a consistent analytical approach?

Hire people, who understand both analytical tools and what these managers are trying to get. 

What is the one social media metric you would die to measure, but no one out there came up with a solution yet?

How much what we offer aligns with what people really want.

 I would risk a statement that people often times don’t know what they want…they search for one thing, but end up using or doing something completely different. People are irrational, don’t you agree?

You are right, but my measure is not what they want now, rather: after you show it to them, they like it or not? People are very bad at figuring out what they want before they see it but quite good at deciding what they like after they have played with it.

Information overload is killing our productivity. You have plenty of projects on your plate and you are surely a busy man. How do you achieve a better quality of information and remove the noise?

I will be honest with you: I was never good at that, I am someone who begins 1000 things and completes 2-3. But recently things have changed for me, simply because I realized (finally!) the truth: I do not have much time, nobody has, we barely have the time to do what we need and truly wish to do, and send everything else to hell.

…so, prioritizing.

 Do not let information drive you, any information,  drive your life and use the right info to go where you want to go.

How do you see the role of AI in data mining?

Well, the fact is, little by little we will let machines do the dirty job. Data sets are huge and complicated, so this is bound to happen (in fact, it is already happening). But I do not see the role of humans as something that is going to die anytime soon: humans are still needed to create new ways to model data, to make sense of what machines will find. Let us say that I am here an optimist: instead of substituting humans, I like to think of future AI as expanding our cognitive powers. But maybe I am a tad too optimistic. Time will tell.

They say that failures make us stronger. Could you share with us one of your failures and what did you learn from it?

There was a project I started in 2009 called MergingPot, the ancestor of this new thing. I spent a considerable amount of time building it, putting it on FB as an app, but eventually it died. Why? Truth is, I had no clue how to run a start-up, how to prioritize, how to engage people, and also my timing was not right. In fact, everything was wrong EXCEPT the core idea, which was way ahead of time. Now, if I was a complete fool, I would give up. Far from it…I always loved the hero who has been beaten up  to a pulp and yet makes a last comeback

Do you want more blood? I could go on forever. What is more interesting is WHY I failed. Chiefly by lack of consistency: when you start something, you MUST complete it, no matter what.

 Ouch! You even don’t know how much I agree with you on that one…thanks for sharing!

And of course,  thank you a ton for the interview, Mirco!

Thank you Dagmara! I had a lot of fun.

Tony, I am sure you know that one of the biggest struggles of every social media manager is to prove their impact on the company’s ROI. Can you give us an example of a campaign that is beautifully linked to return on investment?

A great example of showing the ROI of a social media campaign comes from one of Microsoft’s partners Cisco who saved $100K. While most companies spend big bucks for product launches on things like flying execs from all over the world they did the entire thing online. Here is the link to the case study. I encourage all in the social media industry to check it out!

Thanks for the link Tony. Also, can you share a proven method of retaining follower base and the way of measuring the retention rate?

Your followers will always ebb and flow. The trick to retaining them is to ask them what THEY find most interesting on your social channels. You can get immediate answers by conducting bi-weekly polls. This will provide the guidance you need to create the right content followers will keep coming back for! The way I measure retention is through weekly reporting. A part of these reports shows how many followers we gain/loss on each channel. To get this data you can use social media tools such as Sprinklr or the analytics each platform has to offer.

What is the biggest challenge in a social media manager’s job and the way to overcome it?

The biggest challenge I face is keeping up with the number of new social platforms introduced every day! Actually, tech advancements are exciting; the challenge is determining which are necessary to your organization’s success. The way to overcome this challenge is to really know what your audience demographics look like and to start off with the main social platforms you know have the most users like Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter. Utilize the analytics each of these platforms offers to build audience profiles and based on what you find expand your platforms accordingly.

They say that failures make us stronger. Can you give us an example of one of your failures, experienced during your career in social media. What did you learn from it?

Sorry, I have no examples, I’m the bomb! Just joking, of course, we all fail at some point it’s coming up with quick solutions that make us truly successful. Early in my career, I actually had a hard time learning about the voice of the company. I was a budding social media personality in my own right and thought that my voice was universal… Not the case! My failure was that I didn’t learn enough about how the company spoke to its audience members before taking the job. I mastered it thanks to a supportive management team and a determination to get it right. Thankfully, I became great at speaking for a number of Fortune 500 companies including the one I work for now Microsoft!

My takeaway for social media managers (and community managers) would be to visit the social platforms of the companies they want to work for and get to know how they speak and what message they are looking to get across. Being the “voice” of an organization is a huge responsibility, what you say can affect how people view your company for better or worse.

How do you define the success of a non-quantitative social media activity?

It’s all about audience reaction. Knowing what I post brings joy to the audience for me is a true success even if it cannot be quantified by measurable standards. I like to create fun graphics and make jokes with audience members though these actions don’t produce sales or even tons of likes/shares. It’s the comments back of “you made my day” or “thank you” that makes what I do extra special.

Any golden tip on achieving a consistent analytical approach?

A consistent analytical approach always begins with a question. Was our promotion successful? Did today’s post resonate with the audience? Therefore, my golden tip is to be ok asking “why”. You have to be open to asking and thinking about how things occur. It’s the basis behind all analytics. So don’t be afraid to ask questions, they spark a deeper conversation that eventually leads to answers.

What is the one social media metric you would die to measure, but no one out there came up with a solution yet?

I really do not have an answer for this one. Almost everything can be measured on social these days. Once you master the tools available and really understand the importance of data analytics you can find any answer you’re looking for.

Are you using any social media management tools you cannot live without?

Oh yeah! Sprinklr is essential for what I do. I can set up listening queues, reports and of course engage with audiences on this tool. It’s easy to use and new features (like little bird-which can be used for influencer identification) are constantly added. If you aren’t using it I suggest you give it a try.

Can you share with us your process of coming up with a social media strategy? What is the most difficult phase of a strategy?

There are a number of steps to building a solid social media strategy my top three tips:

1. Create obtainable goals: Outline what you looking to do. Are looking to increase traffic, mentions, etc. A strong social media plan starts with know what the goals are and once established the fun part of how they can be achieved begins!

2. Find out who you want to be your audience: Your message needs to resonate with audiences for it to be successful. Identify where your industries audience behaviors, demographics, and interests lie. It is a lot of research but obviously worth it! Quick tip: You can find some of these answers by looking at social platforms in your industry and seeing who follows them and what content types they interact with the most.
3. Identify what channels will work best: There are a number of social platforms to choose from but what they offer may not fit with you organizations goals of reaching out to identified audiences. Learn which platforms are essential for business and will have the demographic you are looking to capitalize on.

 Step 3 is the most difficult phase of a strategy because each platforms functionalities change often so my suggestion is to be open and fluid to change. Do not be afraid to add other platforms as long as you have the bandwidth in place to support them properly.

Your biggest social media inspiration and social media guru everyone should learn from is…

I actually have two. CEO of Thrive Arianna Huffington (ariannahuff) and growing social star and host of the MPN Podcast Rachel Braunstein (@rkbraunstein). Both of these powerful women share great tips you need to know to propel your career and enrich your daily life. I love learning and both Arianna and Rachel provide guidance that is relatable to everyone. If you aren’t following them I strongly encourage that you do!

Thanks for that one. I read the book of Arianna Huffington, but I definitely need to check out the podcasts of Rachel Braunstein. Let’s talk about social media QA. Testing and innovation are an important part of every social manager’s job. Can you share your hit and miss of 2017?

My HIT of 2017 is Brand24 a FREE platform (with a paid component depending on your needs) allows you to perform deep analysis on a number of social media functions. I utilize it for event hashtag tracking. It is a must try. My MISS of 2017 would be underestimating the power of custom graphics. We are a visual society and people really respond to colorful and slightly graphics on social. Custom graphics are the main part of my social planning and essential to the continuous growth of the platforms I am responsible for.

What is the newest social media trend you would love to explore more?

Live video is taking off. All of the top social media platforms are providing avenues for users to live stream more than ever. It’s immediate and in many ways a more impactful way to get messages across. I have LOTS of video coming up soon for both Microsoft and for my personal brand so stay tuned!

What is your process and mentality around taking ideas, prioritizing & testing them efficiently, validating, and then feeding the learning back into the process?

I am an A/B tester. Everything that comes my way I want to know how it works, will it work and how it will be implemented. I am open to ideas but before they are presented to the field I want to make sure it’s something that they want and will enjoy. Do not be afraid to do beta testing with select audiences. The information collection is invaluable for success.

One DO and one DON’T for creating a meaningful growth in social media would be….?

Do: Like as many people on social platforms as you can.

Don’t: Over follow! Follow people you know will follow you back and help you promote your posts. As your social media platforms grow then you can start following verified accounts that may follow back in turn.

And the last but not least: what would be your 2017 social media tip?

My 2017 social media tip: Identify your TOP INFLUENCERS and utilize them to the fullest. Influencers are essential messengers you need to get your words in front of audiences you may not have direct access to. Engage with them as much as you can (once they are identified) and do not hesitate to reach out to them when you need specific posts amplified.

Thank you for the interview!

Numbers tend to be a true Achilles heel for plenty of fellow social media managers, but you definitely don’t shy from numbers as a research assistant, helping out in data gathering and analysis. Can you give us an example of a campaign that was beautifully linked to ROI? 

A lot of the time, I try to look for inexpensive ways to gather data. In my experience, few companies want to allocate a higher budget to social media, or media in general. So through freely available tools such as built-in media platform post/campaign monitoring tools, or even better: using Google Analytics really helps a lot. There are freely available courses on how to use such tools that I recommend everyone take advantage of. The only shortcoming of Google Analytics is its inability to monitor social media, however, I found that most platforms have their own tools available.

At the moment the best example of ROI in my experience was when I first started experimenting with social media and analytics. I ran my own advertisement on Twitter, and quickly learned all of my mistakes in the ad campaign through the Twitter analysis interface. I remember making the silly mistake of including too many, hardly relevant, keywords in the campaign thinking that as long as it reaches more people, it would be better. That was a wrong approach. After adjusting my keywords, I had gained a lot more followers and traffic to my main website at the time. Ever since then, I’ve been using the tools to find the best posting times for my particular audiences, as well as see what posts interest them the most and look for ways to make them more frequent.

Can you share a proven method of retaining follower base and the way of measuring the retention rate?

In my experience, the best way of getting a steady follower base is by finding a niche topic that you like to post about and stick to it. I have found too many blogs try and post a variety of content targeted at a varied audience. However, that tends to confuse the brand identity more so than gain more followers. For example, an account that posts only flowers will be more successful than an account that posts about flowers, cooking, and cars. People look for specialization. And of course, being engaging with the audience, and posting frequently enough and on a set day of the week/month is important.

The best way to measure retention rate would be through Google Analytics or that particular platforms available tools. I like to look at the numbers for returning users to see if I have decent retention rates. However, when using Google Analytics for this, remember to exempt the IP address from your work and home to not confuse results!

What is the biggest challenge in a social media manager’s job and the way to overcome it?

Being on time with posts. It is important to post content at the same time/day so that followers get used to when new content comes up! However, life happens and sometimes we can forget to run a post for the day. I believe it is important to have at least 2 people on social media for that reason. Someone who can pick up the slack on occasion, and generate content when you simply cannot. At my job, I was lucky to have very helpful coworkers who sent me content whenever I was sick so that I could prepare posts from home.

They say that failures make us stronger. Can you give us an example of one of your failures, experienced during your career in social media. What did you learn from it?

I have already mentioned some failures in my previous answers, such as:

• Using too many and irrelevant keywords
• Missing a post date/time

But another failure would be sticking to the same type of content for too long. Interests evolve and that is another reason why it is important to monitor the performance of your posts. You need to be able to evolve with the interests. For a long time, I’ve stuck to posting the same content on Tuesdays because it was just something we always did at NYIT Career Services. However, recently we realized that post was not being clicked! And so I found another type of content to feature in its stead and it has been much more popular with the audience.

How do you define the success of a non-quantitative social media activity?

Since my accounts were not extremely large, it was enough to peruse the mentions under the hashtag we used, or simply look at the comments that were made on certain posts. The cool thing about social media is that it is a two-way communication street! You can reply to people and engage with your own audience. One of the coolest things a brand can do is actually reply and/or address any concerns a follower has. It shows that you listen and that you care.

This approach might be a lot more difficult if you have a larger account. For those accounts, there are software’s available such as Sysomos Listen – Audience Heartbeat. There is a demo available for it, but I believe the full version needs to be paid for. This app allows you to track mentions of your brand. This will help you gauge the overall feeling that the audience has toward your brand and see what is being said about you. You can use that information to adjust in response to those concerns.

Any golden tip on achieving a consistent analytical approach?

I think the best tip for anyone starting out in social media is to stick to it. No matter what, keep posting daily/weekly. A lot of the time, we give up because we are not achieving immediate success with our blogs or media accounts, but that takes time.

The best ANALYTICAL tip I can give is to really invest in Google Analytics. Take the time to get certified in it – it is free. You will get an immense amount of data from it. Use it weekly to monitor your traffic/posts. Use that as a tool to experiment with new approaches and gauge their success.

What is the one social media metric you would die to measure, but no one out there came up with a solution yet?

This would be impossible to measure but I would love to know how many people click on my content because they like it, rather than because they want me to click on their content in exchange. You would see a lot of that happening on Instagram especially. People would comment things like: “Love your art! Please check out mine too!” Which makes you wonder if they only clicked for a click back.

Are you using any social media management tools you cannot live without?

Personally, at the moment no. Though I have used Latergram and Hootsuite in the past. Latergram was a cool tool, but its major fault is that it doesn’t let you set up an auto-post. You still have to be the one to wake up and push the button for it to work!

Can you share with us your process of coming up with a social media strategy? What is the most difficult phase of a strategy?

Knowing your own limits. Sometimes you set out to do too much. This is especially true if you work alone or in a very small team for a very large company. There are many things we WANT to do but cannot, because of time. One such example was how I used to go out, interview and photograph students on campus for our own little version of “Humans of NYIT” post. However, overtime it became difficult to manage due to time constraints.

It is hard to plan for future problems, but you need to try and have the foresight to see what might end up being too much in the future.

Your biggest social media inspiration and social media guru everyone should learn from is…

This may sound cliché but I would say Buzzfeed. Their content is always colorful and engaging and a lot of that is due to them hiring very colorful personalities. They juggle multiple topics but they do it right by using appropriate categories. They are very good at staying on top of latest trends, and they know what their users want to see.

Testing and innovation are an important part of every social manager’s job. Can you share what trends would you like to explore? 

360 click through photographs. Very cool idea, but only if you have a great camera and a cool photo to take. 360 photographs are a novelty that I feel need to be combined with some storytelling. There has to be a plot to the photo. However, 360 videos speak for themselves a lot more than a photo and I really love those. I feel that more brands should try and explore the possibilities of 360 photos/videos.

Another feature that I would love to explore in the future as it is not so readily available yet is Virtual Reality. Specifically, Facebook Spaces. I do not own a VR headset yet, and it is to my understanding that you cannot advertise in Facebook Spaces yet anyway. Though nothing has been said about Spaces being used for advertising, I believe that as with most mediums, eventually it will be open to advertising and I am wondering what that would look like.

What is your process and mentality around taking ideas, prioritizing & testing them efficiently, validating, and then feeding the learning back into the process?

I get inspired by a lot of random things throughout the day: music, shows, games…etc. Once I get an idea, I prioritize them according to how excited I am about implementing them. If I have several ideas I would like to test out, I give each of them about a week or two to test run on their own to monitor their performance (It could sometimes take up to a week for results to accurately show in analytics) before implementing the next. Depending on the performance of each, I judge whether or not it is worth it to keep them active. Then in the future, if an idea has similar specs as a previous one that had not worked then I will probably be less excited about testing it.

I base a lot of this on feeling, but that feeling is based on how I imagine the idea to work which is heavily rooted in past experience with similar ideas. It is visualizing its performance first, then implement.

One DO and one DON’T while creating a meaningful growth in social media.

I have seen a lot of accounts promise follows for a follow-back. I do not believe that creates meaningful growth in social media as it only gains you followers who are interested in their own content rather than yours. When looking for meaningful growth you want your followers to be there for your content out of interest for it. The most important factors in creating meaningful growth are:

• Great content

• Engaging and responsive community

If you create a community around your content, the numbers (followers) will follow. Remember to stay true to your own brand identity and do not let numbers scare you into conforming into something you did not want to be in the first place. To summarize:

DO: stay true to your original identity

DO NOT: promise follow-backs for follows

And the last but not least: what would be your 2017 social media tip?

This will sound corny but: Passion.

Love what you are talking about, and the world will love it with you. Do not post things you do not agree with. People can see through lies a lot more easily these days than in the past. Authenticity is key.

Thank you for the interview!

Lindsay Scarpello is currently working as a Social Media Manager at Omaha Steaks and today we will be asking her about the strategic approach to social media, social media ROI, most important metrics, trends, and inspirations.

Social media is a rough business. What is the biggest challenge in a social media manager’s job and the way to overcome it?

I think the biggest challenge is staying abreast of all of the new trends and how customers are engaging with content. Snapchat (and now, Instagram Stories) is the perfect example of something that came in, disrupted the way we thought people wanted to consume content, and is now a dominant medium on social.

Can you share a proven method of retaining follower base and the way of measuring the retention rate?

Good content. That’s it, really. That’s the secret. Create and share good content.

They say that failures make us stronger. Can you give us an example of one of your failures, experienced during your career in social media. What did you learn from it?

Good question. I think my best example of failure in my role has been when I ran social for a (now out of business) futures trading company. That company experienced a huge public mistake that drove away customers, which eventually led the company’s demise and their being bought and absolved by another company.

Before that, though, during the mistake period, my bosses told me not to respond to angry customers on social media. I knew in my gut that this was the exact opposite of a solid PR crisis strategy, but I didn’t press the issue or try to convince my bosses otherwise. Anyway, my position (and many others) was eventually eliminated due to the company going under, but I still wonder if I had countered my bosses’ ideas with a solid social strategy, where I’d be today. I’m ultimately happy because I moved on and have had a good career, but it’s still interesting to think about.

How do you define the success of a non-quantitative social media activity?

I’m not sure there isn’t a non-quantitative way to define the success of a social activity. Vanity metrics like impressions or reach aren’t much when it comes to proving sales value, but they’re often correlated and can give a great general idea of success. I guess I would say I judge the success by the responses I receive from our followers. Example: if I’m getting a lot of great community engagement on Twitter, that’s not something I can quantify, but that word-of-mouth is incredibly valuable.

Any golden tip on achieving a consistent analytical approach?

Figure out how to report sales or conversions (as you define them) and you’ve proven everything you need to. For us, we report on sales, but we also report on CTR, because we consider that a conversion for social. If we’re getting them to click through to the content or the offer, we’ve done our job. If they’re not following through to purchase, then there’s something else wrong with the sale or the UX of the page, or something. And that’s a valuable thing to know for other areas of the company.

What is the one social media metric you would die to measure, but no one out there came up with a solution yet? 

I think there are solutions for this but they’re generally expensive, cumbersome, and there’s no one-size-fits-all approach… I’d say differentiating organic vs. paid ROI on social.

Are you using any social media management tools you cannot live without?

CoSchedule. Seriously, look them up. (Other favorites: Buffer, Later, Canva, Sprout Social.)

What is the newest social media trend you would love to explore more?

I’m really exploring ephemeral content right now. I think that with Instagram Stories blowing up Snapchat and Facebook rolling out its own version, it’s only a matter of time till they open it up to brands. We’re heavily testing the format.

Can you share with us your process of coming up with a social media strategy? What is the most difficult phase of a strategy?

Hmm, it depends on the business. Basically, every company I’ve joined, I take some time to evaluate what’s working with their current strategy and what needs to change, and then I also assess what historical content/creative should be being used. Then I built an editorial/social calendar for however often needed — typically monthly.

Your biggest social media inspiration and social media guru everyone should learn from is…

There isn’t just one. Follow innovators in your industry, and follow/watch people on social whose content you really, really love. That’s where you’ll get your inspiration. My example: I love Epic Reads on social. They have nothing to do with the food industry, but I think they create great social content.

Testing and innovation are an important part of every social manager’s job. Can you share your hit and miss of 2017?

To be honest, we haven’t had one! It’s either too soon to tell, or we’re just doing a good job this year so far. (Probably the first one!) The closest thing I can think of it signing an annual contract for a tool, and then finding a cheaper/better tool right after doing so. Unfortunate but it happens.

What is your process and mentality around taking ideas, prioritizing & testing them efficiently, validating, and then feeding the learning back into the process?

I use a comprehensive to do list and just manually move them around as I get more time/as needed for what is the most pressing. If I don’t think it’s a good idea, I say so. There aren’t a lot of bad ideas out there that aren’t worth testing.

One DO and one DON’T while creating a meaningful growth in social media.

Don’t try to take shortcuts when it comes to creating good content. Work smarter and more efficiently, yes, but don’t put crap content out there. Do respond and engage with as much as people as possible to make real connections that will benefit your brand.

And the last but not least: what would be your 2017 social media tip?

Create. Great. Content!

Thank you for the interview!

Fletcher, you worked closely with the marketing teams to create brand approved content to drive sales and increase conversions. Sales and conversions are all about hard numbers and the numbers are often times a true Achilles heel for social media managers. Can you inspire them by giving an example of a campaign that was linked to ROI (Return on Investment) and did well? 

The gap between a social media strategy and strong ROI isn’t as wide as it once was. The rise of high-quality tracking tools means I can follow someone from social channel to eCommerce solution to confirmed order. I’ve run a ton of ads that I reported with basically that same formula. We spent X, which generated Y traffic, and the average conversion rate was Z, but I don’t think that’s the most beautifully linked campaign I’ve run. I recently finished up a longer-term cosmetics campaign using really focused Facebook targeting on building an email list. The success of the resulting list has been staggering, we’re talking twice as many conversions as any list they ever bought. The way I see it all the revenue that email list is generating is the result of social media.

Can you share a proven method of retaining follower base and the way of measuring the retention rate?

You want the recipe for the secret sauce?! The best I can do is some of the ingredients. On all my communities I closely monitor attrition, how many people are unliking/unfollowing every day. I like to establish a baseline using historical data, and measure my success off that. If my attrition goes up, I know I’m not communicating well with the audience (unless the brand wants a big shake up in voice, you can expect attrition to go up then). It’s all about offering value to your fans. Their timeline/feed is a personal space for them, you don’t go to someone’s house and talk only about yourself. That’s a great way not to be invited back. Engage and offer value and you’ll get invited back all the time.

What is the biggest challenge in a social media manager’s job and the way to overcome it?

“We want you to make a viral video.” I get that, or a variation of it, quite a bit. All brands really want to be the next thing people are talking about but very few of them are willing to take the risks required to make it happen. I use the squatty potty video to help stakeholders understand. That video went viral because it’s a unicorn pooping ice cream. No one expects that. People know how seriously brands take themselves if you want something to go viral you can improve your chances by loosening the reigns a bit and getting weird.

They say that failures make us stronger. Could you give us an example of one of your failures, experienced during your career in social media? What did you learn from it?

I had just started managing social media for a major snack brand and the results were pretty great. Engagement had tripled, reach was through the roof, sentiment was overwhelmingly positive, and I think I got into this mindset where I thought I was invincible so I said, “Hey, everything is going so great we should take this to Reddit!” Which is the social media equivalent of starting a land war with Russia in the middle of winter. I pitched engaging with the international snack exchange subreddit, a place where people can post regional snacks and trade them with other people for snacks around the world. I think two people signed up and the whole thing just cratered. I learned that if you’re taking something to Reddit you need to be really buttoned up and offering a significant incentive. “We’re making our product available for exchange.” Isn’t going to cut it.

How do you define the success of a non-quantitative social media activity?

By how good the story is. I know that’s a pretty wishy-washy thing to say but I don’t think there’s anything quite like a good story. Early on with my aforementioned snack food client I had an amazing community interaction with a video game streamer. A guy with over 200,000 followers. It ended with him changing his profile picture to an image of our product. The next time I was in the office the screenshot of that profile was hanging on the Senior Manager’s wall. Pretty good story.

Any golden tip on achieving a consistent analytical approach?
This is a great question and something often overlooked by social media managers. The best advice I have here is, “Listen to your stakeholders.” We have a depth of analytics available at our fingertips that’s overwhelming and most of the time our stakeholders are not going to have time to dive deep into how many impressions we generated in Bodø Norway. I give them Reach, Engagements, and Link Clicks right up front. Then provide the bulk of the data below that they can dig into if they want.

What is the one social media metric you would die to measure, but no one out there came up with a solution yet?

Trust. It would be great to know how trustworthy my community finds me. People are so used to be sold to on social that everything is taken with a huge grain of salt. To know how confident people are in my messaging would be pretty cool.

Are you using any social media management tools you cannot live without?

I forgot my phone at home the other day and drove an hour to get it. I don’t need it to do my job, but come on. Other than that, I am a big big fan of Grammarly. I don’t make many mistakes but Grammarly is a super cool tool to catch the ones that I do and even improve my use of the language.

Can you share with us your process of coming up with a social media strategy? What is the most difficult phase of a strategy?

I start by asking them what they think their brand voice is like, that gives me a good idea who they think they are. Then I look at what they’ve posted and see what’s worked and what hasn’t. That tells me who their audience thinks they are. From that, I can recommend who we can be, what we can accomplish and how we can get there. The hardest part is that sometimes there’s a serious disconnect between who they think they are, and who their audience thinks they are. Resolving that discrepancy can be a painful process.

Your biggest social media inspiration and social media guru everyone should learn from is…

Gary Vaynerchuk and I literally don’t think there’s any other answer. I got to see him speak at Twitter with Dick Costolo a couple years ago and it was just this brilliant conversation about the state of the industry and where it’s heading. He was amazing. If you want to be a social media professional in any capacity and haven’t consumed everything Gary V has written you’re doing yourself a disservice.

Testing and innovation are an important part of every social manager’s job. Can you share your hit and miss of 2017? This could be a software, a product or anything else that comes to your mind and it is related to social media management.

I did a brief stint on Sprout this year that I didn’t enjoy. That’s not a knock on the Sprout platform, I just didn’t care for it, so that was a miss. As for hit, it is undoubtedly Instagram allowing the management of multiple accounts. I’m surprised there weren’t parades.

What is the newest social media trend you would love to explore more?

If I have to pick only one I’d say it’s probably bots. On its surface, I should hate it because I’m always talking about the human element of social and how important that is from a strategy standpoint, but when I think about it more the argument can be made that at some point bots will be a better user experience for the person using them. I’m definitely keeping an eye on bots.

What is your process of taking ideas, prioritizing & testing them, validating, and then introducing the learning back into the process?

I like to work in groups. Whether it’s creative for editorial content or strategic for campaign approaches I love getting a lot of different mindsets together to build something incredible. I also make sure the people that I bring together have different personalities and interests. If everyone was a goofy comic book nerd like me all our stuff would start looking pretty similar. With input from sports fans, fashionistas, foodies, and outdoors people I can put together a well -rounded plan more likely to make a connection.

One DO and one DON’T for creating a meaningful growth in social media.

Don’t script your responses. Everything should feel authentic because audience members can sniff out a copied and pasted response a mile away. So, I suppose the “Do” is draft your responses on the spot as often as you can.

And the last but not least: what would be your 2017 social media tip?

Remember to put down your phone every now and then. It’s important to get your head out of the constant flow of content and go watch a bird eat a piece of bread or something. Go to the zoo and don’t bring your phone with you, just live in the moment for a few hours and you’ll thank yourself for it. Also, if you have a significant other they will thank you for it too.

Thank you for the interview!

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Lao-tzu, Chinese Philosopher (604 BC – 531 BC)

In 2011 I quit my job in SAP recruitment in London and moved to China. Little did I know what was going to happen, but I hoped that the relocation would help me change my career.

I didn’t love my job, but I didn’t strongly dislike it either. As everywhere, it had its rainy Monday mornings when commuters were rushing through the Liverpool Station. Everyone seemed stressed out and unhappy about starting a new week in the City. However, as soon as I would get inside the office and make my coffee while chatting with colleagues, it didn’t seem that bad. ‘I can do it, I can get through another week, if I only survived Monday’ I would say to myself. There was also the thrill of headhunting, the constant buzz in the office, and a lot of laughs. Life was good and the closer to the weekend the better it was becoming. Around Wednesday, emails from my friends were starting to circulate as we were preparing for another fabulous weekend in London. It rarely happens that we are entirely happy or unhappy in our job, and I guess that makes any decision harder. When is the cutting off moment when we say: “I’m done with it and ready for a new role”? Once we have reached that stage another obstacle appears – we don’t have clarity on what we WANT.

I realized that what bothered me the most about my job was the fact that I didn’t feel challenged anymore. I didn’t want to live only for the weekend. I thought about moving to internal HR, as that was one of the most common “career transitions” for agency recruiters. I was also asking myself when was the last time I was happy at my job? The answer was three years ago, working as an executive search consultant in the energy sector. With that in mind, I was considering going back to the executive search. Then my boyfriend got a job offer in Beijing. We discussed three options: a long-distance relationship, me staying in London and trying to job hunt in Beijing, or finally quitting my job and relocating together. From a recruiter perspective, I knew that being in the right location could make a huge difference. Firstly, my CV with London and the UK number on it could go into the “bin folder” in a matter of seconds. Secondly, meeting hiring managers face to face is a small difference that makes the all the difference.

While discussing relocation, we also decided to get married. Three weeks later, on a Monday morning, I was rushing through Liverpool Station to work. I was going straight from the airport and I asked my manager if we could have a meeting. He knew I just came back from Las Vegas, he wasn’t particularly surprised about the marriage decision. However, he didn’t expect the news that I was now moving to Beijing.

I was moving to a country that I haven’t visited before. I didn’t know anyone there and I didn’t speak the language. A country that scores at the top of the most difficult places to live and work in the world. The goal was to find a new career path and I was excited about it, especially about the fact that everything was going to be different.

What happened in China?

Since it wasn’t my first relocation experience, I was confident that soon I would find my dream job. However, my confidence was crushed and then rebuilt again. It turned out that majority of mid-level HR roles in China were reserved for Chinese speakers. One of the most shocking feedback replies was from P&G: We are only hiring native Chinese people for the HR department. Recruitment is a numbers game, so I set myself a target- twenty CVs to send out per week. I started to be headhunted by recruitment agencies and without any better option, I was going for every interview I was invited.

Over countless interviews and five formal job offers later (I rejected all of them), I was disillusioned with my job search. I accepted a role as the IT Recruitment Consultant. The same job I had in London. I realized that no matter how hard I tried I will never love this job. During that time, many foreigners asked me to consult them about the job market in Asia, their CVs, and interviewing. That was a first, small step to becoming a career coach in the future. I also enjoyed training my Chinese colleagues on recruitment best practices and social media.

One day I received a call about interviewing with another IT recruitment company. I explained that I was not looking for yet another similar role. “Why don’t you just meet the manager and see what happens?” said the recruiter. It was like hearing myself many times before, convincing my candidates to be open-minded and go for the interview.

During the interview, I was very clear about what I didn’t want and what interested me. The company decided to create a new, fixed term contract role for me, which was training and coaching their recruitment team. I was going to deliver what the company needed, doing the work I enjoyed. It turned out to be one of the best jobs I’ve ever had. Before my contract expired, I updated my LinkedIn profile, and I got headhunted for an intercultural trainer role. A new career in training and coaching had officially begun.

How can you approach your career transition abroad?

• Before you throw away your current career, think about the moments you enjoy at work. These are the good clues. I realized that I was keen on helping others to learn and grow or find a better job. I did like the recruitment ambiance, and the whole process of headhunting supported by social media. Now, I train others on social media recruiting. My recruitment experience comes in handy in my coaching work.
• Think about your niche skills and how you can solve the company’s problems. Find out what are their struggles and propose your solution. Pay attention to direct competitors of your current employer. These are usually the companies that will want you the most. In my case, I offered my knowledge of SAP market and hands-on expertise in recruitment to secure a training position.
• If you work for a larger company, a good place to start career transition could be your current workplace. Much of recruitment efforts is about mitigating the risk of hiring the wrong person. Once you are in company A, someone else has already taken the risk of recruiting you. It’s much easier to change roles or even a whole career internally.
• If you relocate with your family, ask your partner’s company for career assistance. More and more companies deliver career coaching for relocating partners. Others don’t have formal programs in place yet, but they can provide some extra budget for it. I predict that it will become a growing trend because many more relocating families want to continue dual careers.
• Do an inventory of yourself (HERE is the book that will teach that) but don’t keep it for yourself. Go out, meet people, interview, brainstorm. Have the courage to say: I like your company, but I don’t like the job. If the company truly wants you, they will create a job for you. YES! It does happen.

Beata Dziedzic

Pictures: BD, Heather Schnacke, Canva